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JoeBlogs

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Technically with all that we have witnessed, she could work for Christian, and not offer any sex what so ever. That will still fall within the agreement of working for Christian, and the promise made he made to her (bathroom being last time - "you don't get to touch me again" said in parking lot).

If she does have extra marital sex from now, it is purely for her own greedy pleasure and desires, and nothing to do with Hutch or his job.
 
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Gattsu#Struggler

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Technically with all that we have witnessed, she could work for Christian, and not offer any sex what so ever. That will still fall within the agreement of working for Christian, and the promise made he made to her (bathroom being last time - "you don't get to touch me again" said in parking lot).

If she does have extra marital sex from now, it is purely for her own greedy pleasure and desires, and nothing to do with Hutch or his job.
Not quite.
At the bathroom Vivian agreed on helping with the little project but needs Hutch's permission. She also insisted to not have sex with Christian again.

At home Hutch wants her to help Christian on this little project and to work with him! (talking code: work with him = have sex with him) by setting the marriage to open!
He does not tell her to work with others than Christian, though we all know it will come to that!
 
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TonyMurray

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And what are your thoughts on how Hutch and Vivian got together?

I would assume that Hutch met Vivian in her wild days.
Most people seem to assume that Vivian was wild in her younger days, but there's literally nothing to back that up. To be honest, looking at the two of them, I see it as much more likely that Vivian and Hutch were high-school sweethearts, and maybe both were the quieter type. I wouldn't be surprised if they were each other's first and (until recently) only lovers. (Plus additional comment below.)
there is flaw in this theory as if vivian was really wild in her would she have been so easily manipulated by christian so many times
I agree. I think if Vivian were a wildchild, she might have been more understanding (or at least aware) of what Christian was doing - not saying she wouldn't have fallen for it, mind. Perhaps she would also have acted differently herself, being slightly flirty, for instance. Instead, her actions/reactions suggest a bit of inexperience, if anything.
my speculation. I think Addison will give Hutch the password to access Christian's computer. In the Vivian folder, Hutch will have a retrospective view of all of the recorded sex acts. Most importantly, Hutch will see all the sex acts with Christian and maybe Businessman as well.
What are your top 5-10 games?
I can see that being involved, and it could be interesting. I'm still unsure how big a part Addison will end up playing - there are so many characters who have been introduced and who could play a part... or could end up just being red herrings...
(Not me who was asked, but my favourite games (and lots of others I've played) are in the link in my signature, if you want to look for something new to try out.)
Well Hutch got cucked by Vivian and therefor he is a cuck but he isn't a cuckold who likes to watch his wife getting banged by another one nor does he wants it.
This has already been discussed, but I think this is the key distinction to make. When people talk about Hutch being a cuck and secretly liking it, etc., I don't know whether people are intentionally trolling, or they are just desperate for him to enjoy it so they can get their maximum enjoyment in turn. It may not be a "dictionary definition" but I see it as "being cucked" and "being a cuckold" which are two slightly different things, depending on whether the one being cucked wants and enjoys it or not.
I'm not very good at interpreting such situations, but here's my opinion: Christian gave Vivian a little test in the office this morning. He saw his situation in the kiss incident. Then he tested this too when he took the dominant role in their marriage. to hutch; "Don't bring your wife," he said to Vivian, "If you don't come wearing this dress, the dinner date will be cancelled." When he saw Vivian's behavior during the kissing incident and that she came to dinner in that dress, he realized that he could get her. Since he knew how much they needed this job, the rest was very easy for him..

I apologize for the grammatical errors as English is not my native language.
Exactly this. A little test first with the kiss, possibly started off by the very first meeting, where through shock at his unexpected closeness, or whatever else, she went weak at the knees. I actually really like the test and the moment when Vivian realises "Shit, I wasn't the one he was testing."

That's actually another important distinction. We've talked about how Vivian took it upon herself to fix things, because she knew Hutch wasn't able to (with his "homework" while she was getting a tour of the house, etc.), but she had already made Hutch fail that test, by insisting on going to the dinner. So part of her thinking was likely about fixing that. Hutch failed the test, but it was her fault, she needs to make amends if they are going to get out of the evening with Hutch still having his job.
 

TonyMurray

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my definitions on this:
  1. a cuck
    man/woman who got cucked/was cheated on by her/his LI

  2. a cuckqueen
    woman who likes to watch her LI to have sex with another person

  3. a cuckold
    man who likes to watch his LI to have sex with another person
Once you take the enjoyment out of it, there isn't really a word for "person who is cheated on" these days - "cuck" is probably about as close as we get in English, but today, that automatically has the negative or sexual connotation to it that isn't always appropriate to the situation. Sometimes the person being cheated on is just a person being cheated on. They might not even know about it, so how can they enjoy it?

In the "old days", "cuckold" would just be the person who is cheated on ("the husband of an adultress"), but the definition has evolved a bit to what we recognise today. I suppose it's different saying "he was cuckolded" as that doesn't feel (to me) like it's saying he got enjoyment out of it, or even that he definitely knew about it. It just means he was cheated on.
 

Sparta158

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May 22, 2024
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Once you take the enjoyment out of it, there isn't really a word for "person who is cheated on" these days - "cuck" is probably about as close as we get in English, but today, that automatically has the negative or sexual connotation to it that isn't always appropriate to the situation. Sometimes the person being cheated on is just a person being cheated on. They might not even know about it, so how can they enjoy it?

In the "old days", "cuckold" would just be the person who is cheated on ("the husband of an adultress"), but the definition has evolved a bit to what we recognise today. I suppose it's different saying "he was cuckolded" as that doesn't feel (to me) like it's saying he got enjoyment out of it, or even that he definitely knew about it. It just means he was cheated on.
For me, it's not cuck/cuckolding so far. At the moment, I would describe it more as a kind of wifesharing.

Thanks Tony. I read your list some time ago. Not all of it. Respect for your detailed work. Your list, animal list, review and that you let your own experience/interpretations flow into it. It's very well done. With your wealth of experience you could certainly write a good vn.
 
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Hattyrulz

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At the bathroom Vivian agreed on helping with the little project but needs Hutch's permission. She also insisted to not have sex with Christian again.
you have missed out some of the dialogue then if you think that she wanted hutch's permission. there is dialogue at the end in the bathroom scene where vivian clearly states that she will agree to the project and even convince hutch to let her go... this dialogue can also be a reason hutch tells vivian to go do her project....since he heard her will to do it and not bother with hutch's permission(the exact dialogue is the one that change the way hutch talks with vivian at home... christian manipulating him in the office and carpark are also shown as affecting him as he has found out that his wife isnt bothered with seeking his permission when making decisions.(letting hutch be the man of the house). these small incidents one after the other lead to the end scene in the update to be interpreted differently by readers based on how much of the authors view they can understand.
there are posts about vivian taking matters into her own hands as a good decision... but is it... since that decision is what caused this disaster in their marriage. the way vivian went executing the half-baked plan of hers is wrong. she didn't think about the consequence even when warned by her husband. and makes her own choices... so vivian was never asking hutch for permission. it seemed more like she was asking christian what to do which hutch...so this dynamic is already present but not emphasised.
 
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Gattsu#Struggler

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you have missed out some of the dialogue then if you think that she wanted hutch's permission. there is dialogue at the end in the bathroom scene where vivian clearly states that she will agree to the project and even convince hutch to let her go... this dialogue can also be a reason hutch tells vivian to go do her project....since he heard her will to do it and not bother with hutch's permission(the exact dialogue is the one that change the way hutch talks with vivian at home... christian manipulating him in the office and carpark are also shown as affecting him as he has found out that his wife isnt bothered with seeking his permission when making decisions.(letting hutch be the man of the house). these small incidents one after the other lead to the end scene in the update to be interpreted differently by readers based on how much of the authors view they can understand.
I missed nothing. She wasn't going to ask Hutch for a permission nor going to try to convince Hutch to let her help Christian on the little project after she realized that Hutch caught her!
Vivian emptied one and a half bottle of wine and clearly suggested to Hutch to move out of the city being ready to pack her stuff.
Hutch being Huutch instead of agreeing to leave town together told her that he wants her to help on the little project and work with Christian.
Christian couldn't ask for a better wingman!
 
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TheDuke9999

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Agreed, both did and do it for the sake of Hutch's job and not for the sake of their marriage/life/...!

Vivian agreed to Christian at the ladies bathroom to help on the little project without "working with him" ever again to save Hutch's job but she needs Hutch's agreement on this.

Hutch has now only one task in his job, to keep account of the little project his wife is helping Christian with for the same salary as before.
Meaning no little project no job for Hutch!
After the parking lot, Hutch asks his wife at home to help Christian with the little project and to "work with him".
Hutch got that manipulated that he even asks her to "work with" Christian again besides helping him with the little project!

talking code:

little project
  • five points plan: scoping out places to test them; if they suit the clients tastes then invite and persuade them to sign contracts
work with
  • have sex with
Delusional
 

TheDuke9999

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Jan 3, 2022
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For me, it's not cuck/cuckolding so far. At the moment, I would describe it more as a kind of wifesharing.

Thanks Tony. I read your list some time ago. Not all of it. Respect for your detailed work. Your list, animal list, review and that you let your own experience/interpretations flow into it. It's very well done. With your wealth of experience you could certainly write a good vn.
Delusional
 

TheDuke9999

Active Member
Jan 3, 2022
810
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I missed nothing. She wasn't going to ask Hutch for a permission nor going to try to convince Hutch to let her help Christian on the little project after she realized that Hutch caught her!
Vivian emptied one and a half bottle of wine and clearly suggested to Hutch to move out of the city being ready to pack her stuff.
Hutch being Huutch instead of agreeing to leave town together told her that he wants her to help on the little project and work with Christian.
Christian couldn't ask for a better wingman!
Really Delusional
 

Hattyrulz

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Jan 25, 2018
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keep it civil gents.... everyone is free to think on their own....no one is forcing anyone with their view.... some maybe facts which people interpret in different ways. like how tony went about the usage of the word cuck in relation to hutch. you can agree / disagree. the contradicting theories are what is keeping the thread and vn interesting(one of the many aspects of the vn)
 
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Dealbreaker

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Once you take the enjoyment out of it, there isn't really a word for "person who is cheated on" these days - "cuck" is probably about as close as we get in English, but today, that automatically has the negative or sexual connotation to it that isn't always appropriate to the situation. Sometimes the person being cheated on is just a person being cheated on. They might not even know about it, so how can they enjoy it?
At this stage of the development of the word and concept, I think, the meaning and application of "cuck" has to include how the "victim" REACTS to the fact. I agree that the application on somebody who doesn't know at all is somewhat outdated or a deliberate smear (although one could say that him really not knowing is already sign of a certain weakness in itself). This reaction decides if he is a cuck or not (i.e. tolerating it, not protesting not leaving etc. but not necessarily enjoying it). This gives us a wider meaning of the term than the narrow one of instigating and enjoying it which is a fetish def of the term which is totally alright. This distinction seems to be important for this game, because I would see Hutch absolutely as a cuck in the sense of his reaction (already in the very moment it happens and after). If he is one in the fetish sense is up to the future of the game and is the interesting thing to see.
 

TonyMurray

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At this stage of the development of the word and concept, I think, the meaning and application of "cuck" has to include how the "victim" REACTS to the fact. I agree that the application on somebody who doesn't know at all is somewhat outdated or a deliberate smear (although one could say that him really not knowing is already sign of a certain weakness in itself). This reaction decides if he es a cuck or not. This gives us a wider meaning of the term than the narrow one of instigating and enjoying it which is a fetish def of the term which is totally alright. This distinction seems to be important for this game, because I would see Hutch absolutely as a cuck in the sense of his reaction (already in the very moment it happens and after). If he is one in the fetish sense is up to the future of the game and is the interesting thing to see.
A good technical term for Hutch would be a "wittol" or "wittold" - a man who is aware of his wife's infidelity (and puts up with it). It is accurate because it shows that he knows she's fucking someone else, but doesn't suggest any form of enjoyment of the situation on his part.
 

Dealbreaker

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I didn't know that term existed, interesting. And it even seems to be old.

Edit: But maybe it's more a term for silent knowledge and silently putting up with in contrast to openly talking about it with your wife and giving explicit consent? Because it etymologically stresses the element of knowledge as such.
 
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Gattsu#Struggler

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Really Delusional
Little help for the dummy:
I missed nothing. She wasn't going to ask Hutch for a permission nor going to try to convince Hutch to let her help Christian on the little project after she realized that Hutch caught her!
Vivian emptied one and a half bottle of wine and clearly suggested to Hutch to move out of the city being ready to pack her stuff.
1740572292632.png 1740572516004.png

Hutch being Huutch instead of agreeing to leave town together told her that he wants her to help on the little project and work with Christian.
Christian couldn't ask for a better wingman!
1740572355317.png 1740572860911.png 1740572882944.png

talking code:
1740572477620.png 1740572634023.png 1740572683124.png
 

packard1928

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Nov 16, 2018
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I missed nothing. She wasn't going to ask Hutch for a permission nor going to try to convince Hutch to let her help Christian on the little project after she realized that Hutch caught her!
Vivian emptied one and a half bottle of wine and clearly suggested to Hutch to move out of the city being ready to pack her stuff.
Hutch being Huutch instead of agreeing to leave town together told her that he wants her to help on the little project and work with Christian.
Christian couldn't ask for a better wingman!
Yes but this same conversation is when he say to work with Christian and then opens the marriage. To me... This leads to He has a plan he wants to do to bring Christian down.
 

Adhdclassic

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Good chance Hutch loves his wife but what she has done has changed him. He is going to use his wife to either get dirt on Christian that can do him harm or his clients harm. Vivian will be oblivious that her husband is using her. Hutch knows Christian has shady business practices; he'll use her to get his revenge.
 

packard1928

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Nov 16, 2018
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Good chance Hutch loves his wife but what she has done has changed him. He is going to use his wife to either get dirt on Christian that can do him harm or his clients harm. Vivian will be oblivious that her husband is using her. Hutch knows Christian has shady business practices; he'll use her to get his revenge.
I agree . I Think he has that mindset to bring down Christian first then he can fix his marriage next. We'll see how the Dev writes it.
 
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Adhdclassic

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I agree . I Think he has that mindset to bring down Christian first then he can fix his marriage next. We'll see how the Dev writes it.
I hope but the question will be will she if she finds out Hutch used her. Personally I think in a weird way she will be happy. That situation will actually bring us back to the beginning when Christian asked Hutch to write down his weakness. He knew his weaknesses once his wife did what she did he decided to deal with it. Wouldn't be surprised if he wrote down his weakness after all.
 
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